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Answer Save. Kyle H. Hey just think of it this way, if you're ever in a dry spell you always have a back up.

Chana Lv 4. How do you think about the answers? You can sign in to vote the answer. I am a proud trans woman. I know exactly what you and your son have gone through.

You are a very strong woman, and I wish you and your son all the best. Love Bron. Listening to the other side of a discussion is the way people learn and change their opinions.

I agree, Peg, but sadly, internet trolls are usually pretty ill people who get their jollies by spouting nonsense with no structured argument, logic, or genuine, untwisted facts.

They are just a bunch of hyperbole, and when really pushed, just state that they either 'have aright to their opinion', or fall back on a twisting, sherry-picking Bible reference.

We once had a federal employee at our offices that was transgender. I would suggest that more merchants put in private unisex bathrooms to accomodate those people that do not feel comfortable using a restroom designated for one gender and would not be accepted using the restroom designated for the other.

Otherwise, we cannot turn the entire planet upside down to accomodate a handful of people. When I was in high school we had maybe 20 kids of each gender in a P.

The people who were comfortable changing out in the open space did so, the people who weren't which was most waited for one of the stalls.

If you were slightly late for your next class you said "I had to wait for a changing stall" and the teacher said "okay.

Personally speaking I would have been no less comfortable with a transgendered girl in the room. I'd be interested to hear what the other girls at the school thought about it.

I seem to remember a case similar to this where there was a huge amount of support for the transgendered kid from almost every other student.

If the kids being affected by it are accepting and welcoming then perhaps we shouldn't impose discrimination on them. Gender is a social construct.

To me saying that the genitals you were born with must dictate your gender is a bit like saying being born with a uterus dictates that you must be a mother.

Because that's what it's there for, right? Why can women ignore their anatomy when it comes to their uterus and say "I'm not maternal" and no one bats an eye, no one says "oh sweetie, you're just ill or confused, you were born with a UTERUS!

You were designed to have babies! What's so scary about peeing in a stall next to a person with different genitalia?

Do you assume transgendered people are sexual predators that will take any opportunity to peek over the stall to check out your goods?

I've been to many places that have open bathrooms with stalls for both sexes. Seems to be becoming more common and I say good!

As a woman I can tell you it's a real pain always waiting in line for the women's washroom while the men's is empty. I'd rather pee next to a man than waste another 10 minutes of my life waiting to pee next to a woman.

I am a transgender woman. I have been following this thread since it was started. I have been following Jackie's increasingly appalling and offensive comments regarding the trans community since she first contributed to this thread.

Does that answer your question? I would rather see you counter her points than call her names. Name-calling does not add to the discussion.

There was no name-calling unless that post was edited before I saw it, the posts referred to are plural and offensive. So now it's name-calling to call offensive posts offensive?

It's offensive to misgender people on purpose and full-well knowing it's unkind as well as rude and inappropriate.

To keep doing it over and over after it's been pointed out as offensive just points to either an agenda or a desire to be cruel or both. Trans people have been compared to pedophiles, schizophrenics, and deviants in this thread.

Those things are all offensive and some of them for many multiple reasons. It's what happens when someone insults someone and everyone else with the same condition, again and again and again in the same thread using the crudest terms that person dares use on the forum without completely alienating even other conservatives in order to spread hate and hysteria.

The hate and hysteria cost lives so it's worth calling people out when they spread it. Let's simplify this for the trolls, haters, and transphobes in this thread.

How many of you are actually pre or post surgical transgender people? Until you do, keep your ill informed opinions to yourself.

I have no stonking idea what you go through, but I can't help but get upset when I witness any of it.

I'm sorry our culture is so much further from civilized than it appears on the surface and I wish people were all able to see all others as human beings.

I'm sorry our culture has stalled advances in treatments for your condition due to fear and bigotry and that health insurance companies, doctors, and EMTs get to legally discriminate against you.

I'm sorry your safety and life are in danger due to public ignorance and hatred of those with your medical condition.

I hope we both live to see a world where people don't need to have a personal experience with transgender people to treat them as people.

Don't let the bile and hate discourage you because we are moving in the right direction. I'm sure that's slim comfort, but, unfortunately, a lot of humans have and will have to live through humanity's brutal growing pains.

It sucks that you're stuck being part of the change rather than just getting to live your life without interference and discrimination.

You got it, Bronwyn, you are spot-on when you say 'ill informed'; the only thing worse than ignorance is willful stupidity.

I don't think men trying to silence women is that common in the grand scheme of things. After all, these men identify as women, so it would be counterintuitive to silence them.

There are always people who try to take issues too far, I don't think those people should define an entire group. I think inclusion as far as bathrooms, locker rooms, etc.

One of my close friends is transgendered and he looks and sounds like a man. If he walked into a women's bathroom people would be confused and likely upset.

And then he has to stand there and explain to the women or the concerned people who watch him exit the women's bathroom who he's probably never met before that he's transgendered and has a vagina?

And they're supposed to just say "oh okay then" and not have any doubt that he's not telling the truth? Does he then get to pull his pants down and flash his genitals to perfect strangers to prove it?

It'd be much easier to just not make a big flipping deal out of him using the men's washroom because technically he has a vagina that no one ever sees, wouldn't it?

I find it interesting that people here are being called hateful or ignorant if they suggest that a man who cut off his penis is now a woman.

Sorry to say, but pandering to that idea is akin to letting a schizophrenic believe that the voices in their head are real, so as not to offend them.

It's pure lunacy. Am I guilty of a thought crime? Then let me ask this to those who feel it is hateful for me to refer to a man as a man, and a woman as a woman; If you are a heterosexual male, would you consider having sex with a man who has transformed his outward appearance to look like a woman?

Would you consider marrying a transgender man? A heterosexual man would not consider marrying a transgender man. A transgender man is a man who has transitioned from a woman to a man.

Try and get your arguments right. Someone said earlier in the discussion, "all it takes to be trans is to simply feel it or think it.

I used to work with a transsexual man Willie now known as Vicky who took joy in seducing straight men and not telling them about her operation until afterward.

It was her idea of conquest or so Vicky said. A 5 year old kid at my niece's school in Gig Harbor, Washington is undergoing an operation to have his penis removed so he can be a "girl".

Tell me what kind of permanent decisions a five year old can make? They can't even make up their minds when choosing the kind of candy they want at the store.

It's supposed to be this big secret, the teachers all have to go through some kind of sensitivity training so to avoid the natural urge to object to this utter lunacy.

What Kind of sick doctor would even consider performing this kind of operation at such a young age? Good Gosh Amighty. Where are the laws on this?

The parents, teachers and adults involved are totally NUTS. Nothing makes a girl a boy or a boy a girl.

Seems pretty crazy but it's true. Liberalism is a disease of the mind. The extent that they go to in ruining the lives of others is unfathomable.

This came from a teacher that works at the school. A teacher at the school said it's true so you choose ignore the fact that it is EXTREMELY unlikely any surgeon would agree to do this, and even more unlikely that a psychologist would let it get far enough to have a surgeon in a place to make that decision at all.

I'm inclined to think you're being willingly gullible because it justifies your nasty thoughts about liberals and for the record I think you'd find that a vast majority of liberals such as myself would vehemently disagree with a gender reassignment surgery on a preschooler.

That's it? Not going to shed any light on why you think it's an actual possibility other than "a teacher said so"? Do you have any information to support that anyone has ever even remotely considered performing this surgery on a child so young?

Do you know anything about how transgendered children are treated medically and by mental health professionals?

Or did you just hear something outrageous that fuelled your hate and decided to run with it? You are right I am a hater.

I hate child abuse. You, you think it's okay. You are perfectly content with my daughters going into the locker room and seeing naked men who are pretending to be women, standing there.

You are okay with those people staring at my daughters while they are in the shower. You are against the rights of women.

Way to deflect! Anyway, I never said they should be forced to accept if they weren't comfortable with it. But very unsurprisingly you've just decided to lash out and be as dramatic as possible 'cause you just really like getting all worked up, I guess.

Well the same people whom you are defending would be just as quick to label you a hateful bigot for not granting them full access in all aspects of society to the facilities which are provided exclusively for the true members of their preferred gender.

So, Onusonus, what do you do, personally, about child abuse? What is your expertise either in child abuse or transgendered people?

I suspect you are a simple troll. Careful now, your answer matters You are labeling me a troll for bringing common sense to the conversation. Tell me you are not agenda driven.

It's about safety, and respecting the privacy of the opposite sex. Sorry to burst your bubble but pandering to the idea that a little boy can become a girl is child abuse.

As a heterosexual female I can tell you that I would not have a single objection to having sex with someone like Balian Buschbaum should the opportunity arise.

Nope, not one. Dude is extremely dudely and attractive. Sign me up. This is the student who demanded to shower and change with the girls in the Missouri case.

The student was offered a private, gender-neutral dressing area and bathroom but refused it. This student was eventually allowed access to the girls facilities, and after one week of the transgender student using the girls facilities, the girls staged a protest.

Perhaps in some cases the girls accept the transgender student and are not bothered, but what about cases where the girls feel unsafe because they believe the transgender student is not genuine?

Perhaps natal males who want access to female facilities should be required to submit a brain scan showing proof of their female brain, and a statement from a doctor that they are on puberty blockers or cross-sex hormones.

Edit: or have been castrated. I certainly am not going to entertain any suggestion for this person to use female bathroom facilities merely based on his behavior and his demands, where is the medical proof?

This person is arrogant for not accepting the provisions made to accomodate him. The girls concerns were proper and justified. Considering the youngest person to ever undergo gender reassignment surgery was 16 and the fact that most professionals won't even talk to kids about surgery until they hit puberty, I have to assume someone is either yanking your chain or there was a major collapse in communication somewhere leading to a misunderstanding of the issue.

The parents, a psychologist, and a surgeon would all have to OK a gender reassignment on a 5-year-old and even if the parents did, I highly doubt even one of those two health professionals would be on board, let alone both.

I agree; I am appalled that doctors are chemically sterilizing children but castration is usually put off until age What's the difference in a transgender who use to be a boy but now considers herself a girl being next to all of your dear sweet daughters in a changing room and a lesbian being beside your daughter in the changing room?

Why exactly do we worry about such trivial things? It's a damn penis, a penis on what is physically a boy, but mentally a girl.

Is that really that big of a deal? Do y'all think somehow that probably sweet kind transgender kid is somehow a threat to your child? If not move on and stop stressing over such a trivial thing!

Lesbians have female genitalia. We know nothing about this transgender student in Illinois. How do we know the student is sweet? The kid from Missouri sure isn't acting sweet in that photo.

There is no vetting of transgender students required. Maybe this student is a complete an angel but what about the next one? Who knows who it is or what their motives are?

Until there is either some sort of vetting required or until all schools have private showers and private dressing booths, there needs to be some sort of a compromise to protect girls' safety and privacy.

It is ironic that Title IX was created to ensure educational and sports opportunities for girls and women, but now it is being used by males against girls and women to take rights and opportunities away.

I find it sad that they would need vetting! Women and men are to be treated as equals, unless of course it's a man or use to be a man then they should be treated like criminals!?

Maybe one GIRL is a complete angel, but what about the next? If it were a transgender who identified as male even though he had a vagina would you feel the same?

Would you worry for the boys' safety? If the family believes the child identifies as female, that is close enough to vetting for me.

The trans lobby has pushed hard for the definition of "gender identity" to only require an announcement of one's feelings. There is no medical or social transitioning required for a person to fit the legal definition of a transwoman.

This leaves a huge opening for male abusers to announce they are female and then have free and legal access to women's bathrooms, dressing rooms, retail fitting rooms, locker rooms, barracks, dorm rooms, etc.

A female college student can find herself living in the same quarters with a male in a female dorm -- a male with no intention of ever transitioning socially or medically.

My father-in-law had to jump through a few hoops to get his handicapped parking placard, but a man can become a woman simply by making an announcement -- and then have free reign places where women are showering and undressing, places where it is illegal for men to enter.

And yes, if a male had medically transitioned to female and no longer had a testicles and a penis, I would say, yes, let them in women's spaces.

Just my opinion. That is more than an 'opinion', it is a well reasoned, structured argument with facts, which is far, far better than what 'opinion trolls' do.

It contributes to the conversation, and not the stupid prejudice banter. I see I read your response incorrectly. Courts are generally ruling that girls who identify as boys may not have access to boys changing areas.

It is the girls who must accommodate the boys, as courts are typically ruling that boys who identify as girls must have access to girls bathrooms and locker rooms.

Girls are being told to suck it up and deal with naked penises, while boys are being allowed to do as they please. How is that for girls and boys being treated equally?

Its a war on women by the godless secular society in my honest opinion. Seems to be an idea that has been born right out of the pits of hell to create more moral decay an injustice.

Then the courts need to change. If someone identifies as a sex, genuinely parents back their story then they should be allowed to go where they feel comfortable, and parents should stop teaching their children that the opposite sex is something to hate, dislike, or fear.

If parents start teaching their children about transgender in a kind informative way I doubt there would be many uncomfortable kids.

The kids against it are likely being taught by parents to be against it. Why not instead teach our children acceptance? Why jump to conclusions that these transgender kids are somehow a threat to the other kids?

I just don't get it, but then again I have yet to figure out why grown ups are still all using different restrooms.

There are bad people in the world, but our intermingling with the opposite sex is not a guarantee set up for being violated.

Laws need to be changed! But they are firmly in place, and anyone who tries to get protection or equal rights for girls and women is called a hateful, transphobic bigot.

I totally get you; I have always considered myself a lefty liberal in every way -- but I am also a woman, and was appalled to learn that the laws are creeping in to allow males to run roughshod over females.

Women have fought long and hard for our rights and for our safety, but the patriarchy still reigns. Women's rights are being eroded in new ways that women are not necessarily aware of.

Life is rosy for Bruce Jenner, though. According to him, "the hardest part about being a woman is figuring out what to wear. Transgender people make up less than 0.

You really can't believe that 0. Heck, somewhere around one in two thousand people are born with genitals that require medical professionals to decipher as male or female and then they still get it wrong sometimes!

I'm not saying transgender people don't exist. I am saying that laws need to be in place to protect women and girls from men and boys who lie about having a "female brain.

Girls should not be called hateful bigots if they do not want to undress in front of a person with a penis.

Women and girls also need protection of the medical, educational, sports and business opportunities the laws give them. Title IX was designed to give rights and opportunities to girls and women, but now is being used to take them away on the basis of only "gender feelings.

Gender is not mentioned in Title IX. The gains women and girls have made over the last couple of centuries are being eroded so that people with penises can get what they want.

I don't see why transwomen are not required to provide documented proof of their condition before being allowed into female spaces or to play on female sports teams or take female-earmarked jobs.

People commonly have to provide proof of their age, sex, nationality, parentage, medical conditions, etc. Until communal showers and dressing rooms are outlawed for children in schools or until brain scans are required for kids who claim to have a brain that does not match their genitalia, I don't see why gender-neutral facilities are not seen as a reasonable compromise.

I wasn't aware that trans children didn't need proof in the form of parental statements or doctors' or therapists' statements. I thought the parents had to be on board and that the child had to be living as the gender they claimed.

If you are correct and a child actually can say they are transgender without parent or psychologist support and switch which shower facilities they use, then I agree with you, they should use neutral facilities until their parents confirm their purported gender identity is genuine.

I want the parents' confirmation corroborated with certifications from psychologists and physicians And that is sad!

What the child talks about to those two is not only no ones business but also against the law for them to share!

Parents spend their evenings and weekends with the kids. They would certainly know if their child was merely trying to get the attention of the opposite sex or actually felt like the sex they weren't born as.

The parents would know best, aside from the children themselves. For instance, some parents of transgender people report their children started rejecting their birth gender labels as toddlers.

I also think teens who want to be bullied, teased, beat up, and treated like crap are far more rare than transgender people. That of course presumes that the parents themselves are being objective about the child's condition.

When we get into the touchy issue of restroom and bathroom access and anatomy, as an educator, I want a higher level of proof to justify so great a deviation from the standard.

Some gay rights activists have noticed the trend of homophobic parents transitioning children so they don't have to deal with an effeminate gay boy or a butch lesbian girl.

Why are we letting kids as young as three or four or five socially transition? Kids who socially transition are just about guaranteed to continue to medical transition, which means sterilization.

We are sterilizing kids because they supposedly are mature and wise enough to know that this is what they want as adults.

It seems that boys who like princesses dresses, girls' clothes and Barbie are being pushed to transition, as are girls who like football, boys' clothes and short hair.

Why not just let your son be a boy who wears dresses or your daughter be a girl who plays football? It seems like transgenderists are all about putting kids in boxes: if you play with dolls, you need to be a girl; if you play football with boys, you need to be a boy.

Remember the book "William's Doll? Any citations for that? Because I have trouble imagining parents who can't cope with non-conformist kids finding having a transgender kids "easier".

Sounds like stuff people speculate about rather than that actually happens. Yes, I believe it is mostly speculation, and a little bit of taking what parents say when they are interviewed by the media, picking up on comments.

I think mainly it is gay and lesbian adults looking back at their own gender-nonconforming behavior during childhood and wondering "if I was a child today rather than 40 years ago, would doctors tell my parents I was transgender?

Would my parents and doctors set me up for sterilization, a life of numerous invasive surgeries, continuous injections and lifelong, complicated medical upkeep including unknown side effects of off-label drug use?

Children with persistent GID are characterized by more extreme gender dysphoria in childhood than children with desisting gender dysphoria.

With regard to sexual orientation, the most likely outcome of childhood GID is homosexuality or bisexuality. Even among children who manifest a major degree of discomfort with their own sex, including an aversion to their own genitalia GID in the strict sense , only a minority go on to an irreversible development of transsexualism.

Of those individuals who no longer expressed gender dysphoria at follow-up, a significant portion all female and half the male participants expressed a non-heterosexual sexual orientation [9].

Thus, gender concerns in neurotypical children prior to puberty may represent a developmental process related to both gender and sexuality for many individuals.

The standard is to have genders use separate facilities. Trans-girls are girls. Smart and Fun, I am hardly the expert on this topic.

I am sure that there multiple complications on so controversial an issue. I never mean to be insensitive. All of that aside, nobody can really know, especially the layman what is a stab in the dark for even professional psychologists in regards to such children.

The line just needs to drawn at a point, where there is the least amount of contention, as I think you believe as I do that restrooms and changing facilities are seperated by gender for privacy and safety reasons.

I don't want to undermine that or make exceptions to it without good cause, particularely at the public school level when dealing with children.

So if a transgender woman has had gender reassignment surgery, then that's fine? I'm genuinely trying failing to understand the fear here.

You mentioned the idea of someone lying about their gender identity, but to what end? What exactly are you afraid of? If you articulated your fears directly, maybe those fears could be addressed directly.

The photo of the girl making a rude gesture isn't proof she's not transgender or that she's a lesbian if she is. If it is, then half the teen girls I know must be lesbians or boys in secret, because many teen girls make naughty gestures when they hang out with kids their age and they're feeling like showing off or being rebels.

I used that photo to illustrate the possibility that the student is lying about their "feelings" of being a girl rather than a boy. The unisex world you seem to advocate sounds great on paper..

There are reasons why there are male and female separate bathroom facilities. There was a time when women were seen as only the property of their husbands.

The social mores and times have changed, but it has taken a while. The future may be moving into a direction that you seem to advocate, but embracing the idea will take time too.

This has certainly brought about the expression of a variety of feelings and thoughts. Thank you for your contributions. We now need more than two choices, obviously.

Here is the solution: Every Dorm, University or Jr. Elementary schools or facilities without showers must provide: 1. You Are Welcome. Or how about we just stop being so uptight and stop worrying about who is pissing in the stall next to us!

Hearing someone else pee or drop a poop next to you isn't pleasant regardless of gender. Who cares? Oh Please Face it! We are very different creatures from each other.

The pool was for quiet therapeutic workouts. But this transgender male, now female, two piece and all, would come in and work out exactly like a man.

She would create gigantic waves doing HER exercises. She had gigantic long arms that swished up a storm in the pool.

We could do nothing to stop her. Eventually she died for some reason and the patrons felt relieved. Your lack of empathy is the only thing gross in this thread.

I'm all for discussion on either side of the issue, it's a doozy, but you could at least pretend to be respectful of someone else's life.

My point is: This guy never was the same as a woman even in his two piece bathing suit and flowing long hair, which he would not put in a cap.

Even Bruce Jenner has been caught abandoning his female act when drunk. I knew another transgender guy. Just a wreck. It was too exhausting.

Its gotta be doubly exhausting! If you are a man posing as a woman, you better hope for a single one toilet bathroom somewhere.

That's a horrible thing to say just because someone disrupted your pool ever so slightly. Terrible attitude, I hope one day you look back at this and are ashamed of yourself.

S he cared nothing for the older patrons quietly exercising, splashing them, causing their hair and faces to become wet and their bodies off balance.

S he was a like a bull in a china shop. S he was not sensitive to the others. I will gladly say it again.

When s he did not come back we were relieved. I would say that about anyone who has no regard for others in their environment.

You were relieved that someone was dead. Because they interrupted your leisure time. I still think that's gross and grosser yet that you don't see it.

These people need to exercise in a particular way! They pay a lot of money for aquatic PT training and take classes to learn specific exercises for their condition.

Some of them are afraid of water, but cannot exercise on land. They must move carefully and gently for a variety of health conditions.

I guess I need to spell it out. A therapy pool is just that: for therapy! He had no regard. He had special treatment because he was a transgender… ooh ooo We had to comply with his every wish for fear of being politically incorrect.

We were never to refer to him as him. Yet it was pretty darn obvious. If no one is supposed to care and people just want a place to pee and poop, why don't transgender students accept the offer of gender neutral bathrooms?

They are offered a place to pee and poop but turn it down. They only want to go in the girls' bathrooms. So they don't "just want to pee" or they would not be filing court cases to enter the girls bathrooms.

So it's ok if we make laws requiring all Hispanic children to use a different bathroom they shouldn't complain? What about making public restrooms segregated again?

The point is discrimination! It's easy to not care when I am not being discriminated against. Yes, I am talking about segregation: the segregation of men and women in public bathrooms.

Women fought for it for a reason. Unfortunately, boys who "feel" as though they are girls are different from natal girls.

Yes, different,. They are not the same. That is not the happy ending to the fairy tale we all wish for, but it is biological, scientific truth.

They and we need to accept that there are differences. It is unfortunate for them, and I feel bad for them, but no amount of "feelings" can change biology.

Because of the biological difference between men and women, bathrooms are segregated, for reasons of safety and privacy. I'm all for letting men who have undergone sexual reassignment surgery into women's bathrooms, but I am against making it so easy for males who lie about their gender identity to have free and legal access women and girls when they are showering, undressing, or in otherwise vulnerable states.

Your ignorance about human gender is vast and astounding. It is not either this or that, it's a spectrum. You may wish the world was either male or female, but it is not.

Ignorance breeds prejudice, prejudice breeds hate. In the reply you are referring to I am writing about sex, not gender. There is male, female and intersex.

This is where there is a spectrum. Source: Michael C. Vincent Villano, the director of communications for the National Center for Transgender Equality, told Mic in an email that there isn't any firm data to corroborate these lawmakers' claims, and that NCTE has "not heard of a single instance of a transgender person harassing a non-transgender person in a public restroom.

Sorry, that is not the ticket into the girls area. Heven help true hermaphrodites! Now a girl, as a guy … would he, sans penis, be fine in a guy's showering area?

Would s he? But then they are young adults in today's weird world. Younger kids, closer to common sense sensibilities?

Different altogether. And why should they, the majority sans penises, be forced to submit to ONE kid with a penis? So, maybe they should take a vote at that particular school.

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Shahn says:

Ich denke, dass Sie nicht recht sind. Schreiben Sie mir in PM, wir werden reden.

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